Bill. Let me ask this then. There is the challenge of a philosopher like Richard Rorty (1989), who indicates that when you begin to think holistically you have to confront ironies.
Julio. Yes, plenty of them.
Bill. You mentioned one irony earlier– one can connect easily with new technologies to colleagues in China but might not be able to connect easily to one’s son or wife. So, how do we live in this world of irony? How do you prepare your coaches to help people face the irony?
Julio. Well, first of all, by allowing some messiness into it. We’re not going to have the whole thing organized and precise. Life came from messiness. We are originated in chaos; we are not just all organized. I think we need a little bit of that. The illusion of organization within a discipline is nothing but an illusion. It’s very easy to think that this is organized because I don’t connect it with anything else; at least I think I’m not connecting it. But at the moment you realize that every action of ours is influenced by infinite causality. What is allowing this conversation between you and me? From the food we were having to the traditions that you belong to, to the discourses that you embrace, to the weather- who knows what is here and to what degree? Any time that we want to think in a holistic way, of course we allow some messiness in it.
Bill. Let me push a bit. I don’t think it’s just messiness. The irony would be that I end up having two belief systems, two things I’m committed to, and they’re completely counter to each other.
Julio. Yes, and the opposite of a great truth, as you know, is another great truth. That doesn’t come from me; that comes from a Danish man. But the thing is, we are so used to believing that when one truth is in place, the opposite truth cannot fit.
Bill. So, you’re working with leaders of a major corporation. How do you coach them? How do you sit with them? How do you have conversations with them in acknowledging not just the messiness but the fact that they can probably embrace two or three contradictory beliefs at the same time and not betray one or both of those beliefs?
I recently interviewed Susana Isaacson (2008) regarding her coaching of people in government. The people she coaches indicate that they must simultaneously build trust with other people and must betray this trust. They have to hold both truths at the same moment. At times, it must rip them apart.
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